Resurrecting a dead CD63 KI

**clogman** · 18th March 2006, 16:25

First, excellent forum. I learned more about hifi and improving sound in a day of browsing than I'd done in years of reading hifi magazines.

Second, apologies for being a complete novice when it comes to the inside of a CD player. All I know is, you put a CD in and sound comes out. This I hope to change now I've found this forum. I am pretty handy with the soldering iron and screwdriver, though, having built and rebuilt numerous PCs from the groung up.

Third, my CD63KI has died for again. It's been owned since new for more years than I can remember, not really used that much (barely a couple of hours per week). The first time a fault popped up, it started skipping like mad and needed some repair work (don't aks me what was done, I have no idea) but came back just fine.

About a month ago, it point blank refused to play anything. A disc goes in, the display says the word "disc", the display keeps saying the word "disc", and nothing else happens. I have tried jumping tracks, other discs, compressed air, but still the same lack of response when a disc goes in.

I took the lid off and can see a black plastic frame that retracts and holds the CD, with a sticker on it saying Philips L1210/11. Hmmm. Maybe this is the wrong thing that was added at the repair? This all looks very dust-free and works very smoothly, but a disc goes in and does not rotate at all, it just gets grabbed above and below and the LCD on the front says "disc".

I read somewhere about a new transport from Grandata. Again, excusing my complete ignorance, but is the transport the entire assembly including laser and motor? Does my problem sound like it's fixable with a new transport, or is it going to be something more terminal?

I really want to get this player up and running again; there's only so much music you can listen to in a car before you long for a room full of sound.

And besides, I'd like to start dabbling in the dark arts of clocks and upgrades.

**Anex** · 18th March 2006, 16:47

The disc not spinning doesn't have to be a transport problem, if the transport isn't recieving a clock signal it won't do anything. So if you had a replacement transport that could suggest it isn't that as its new or it could be that it was a duff one that prematurely died. Which doesn't help you one bit. Have you done simple stuff like gone over all the connectors to the boards and made sure they're properly pushed into the sockets?

**clogman** · 18th March 2006, 21:07

Thanks for reading. I should have been clearer.

The repair was done about 4-5 years ago, to solve the 'skipping' problem. The new "disc" problem cropped up about a month or so ago; I suppose something could have died on the original repair.

I haven't ordered a new transport yet from Grandata, until someone (hopefully) tells me that it's the most likely fault. And, as an aside, what exactly will a new transport entail?

As an update, I've got the entire transport assembly out now. The section that holds the laser lens and CD motor is badged by Philips, VAM1201J.

It looks like the repair shop used some compatible Philips items, rather than Marantz items. Granted they might be identical, but other threads mention the CDM12.1 transport. Is this Philips one likely to be an issue here?

***Tenson*** · 18th March 2006, 21:40

Philips IS Marantz. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not sure whether or not that is the exact right component they used though.

**felix** · 19th March 2006, 00:14

The VAM1201J is the correct replacement for the 12.1 - they are the same thing.

Have you tried reading the service mode? Put the thing together, plug in and turn the unit on while holding down the 'Stop' and 'play' buttons. The player will then step through a series of tests and give you a result code identifying fault(s). You can also play discs in this mode as normal, and turning the unit off then on again clears the test mode. Try it, I'll dig out the service manual and look up the results (can't remember offhand!)

**clogman** · 19th March 2006, 01:24

As ever, you guys are a mine of useful information.
Re-assembling the player and running the test gave a message:
P 00
Tempted to say it's apt.
Needless to say, I checked and re-checked all the internal wires that could have come lose and there was nothing.
The transport gives a small 'kick' when I try to jump track, for example, but the machine still refuses to spin the CD and still comes up "disc" on the display.

Many thanks again for any more help or info.

***Tenson*** · 19th March 2006, 01:36

Its a simple thing to suggest but have you tried leaving it powered off at the wall for a night? It sounds like the logic of the player might have got its pants in a twist I think. Might just need time to reset.

**andi** · 19th March 2006, 08:21

try cleaning the lens. Cotton bud and lens solution and GENTLY rub the lens. Disc won't spin until it detects a disc

**clogman** · 19th March 2006, 11:04

Thanks, but it's been powered off for a while before starting this discussion, and still has the same problem.
The lens looks very clean from what I can tell. When the tray is retracted back into the player, the lens assembly rises up and "bounces" up and down. I can obviously only see this when no CD is in the tray. However, putting a piece of paper above the lens doesn't show up any bright spot. I tried this in a darkened room and really can't tell if anything is coming off the laser.

So back to my original question - what do I actually get if I buy a new transport? Does that include the laser? If not, and the laser is at fault, where can I find a new one?

Keep all suggestions and ideas coming.

**leo** · 19th March 2006, 12:51

Could be the spindle motor, have you tried gently spinning the disc after the drawer has just closed and pressing play?
The little disc that rotates the cd underneath may need adjusting, if its too high or too low it can cause problems

Check the main board for any crappy solder joints, also those little plugs can be dodgy, with all my cdp's I take out the little metal plugs in the plastic cases and recrimp and solder them up.

CPC used to sell lasers, you normally only get the actual laser so you will have to dismantle the drawer etc to fit it, if you do try fitting a new one please be very careful

they are delicate especially the ribbon cable, they sometimes also come with a solder short on the little pcb which needs to be removed, this just helps protect from static

Edit
Have a search through this lot

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...&Ntk=gensearch

***Tenson*** · 19th March 2006, 12:51

Yes, transport is the laser, tray, suspension system.

**felix** · 19th March 2006, 13:28

OK. Sounds like the laser is dead. The 'bobbing' is that laser trying to find focus, and until it does the disc motor will not spin-up.

While the laser is trying to focus (and not in service mode) you should be able to see a dark red pinpoint on paper as you describe fairly easily (or find some tracing paper, and view from above). No laser = no focus found, and the rest of load process fails.

Here's the complete service mode check - try stepping through this first:

The replacement is just the laser, disc and tracking motor assembly, which is fitted withn the loader/tray mechanism. From the CD6000 thread, 'Grandata has the CDM12.1 for Â£16+vat here (scroll down):
http://www.grandata.co.uk/acatalog/G...UMBER_676.html
When I last ordered here they actually sent the VAM1201 which is the updated replacement, and works just fine. It is easy to fit - this page should help walk you through the swap:
http://diyparadise.com/cd46/cd46repair.html
- it shows the marantz CD46, but the CD63 is identical.

BTW the previous skipping problem is classically solved by cleaning and re-lubricating the sled rail - the early 12.1mechs were put together with a grease that hardens with time, leading to the laser sled sticking (well-known irritation!)

**zanash** · 19th March 2006, 16:14

That's great info !

**clogman** · 19th March 2006, 20:42

Great info indeed - a very big thankyou. This confirms what I was starting to think - I just wanted someone far more knowledgeable than me to tell me that replacing the transport with the kit from Grandata was actually going to cure the problem, and that it wasn't something else entirely.

I'll call tomorrow to place the order and give you a nod when the repair's done.

I contacted the only 'decent' hi-fi shop near here on Friday last week, giving them the same details I posted here. Much sucking of teeth later, they said that a repair would typically cost Â£150-Â£200, and that's if parts were still available (which they doubted), so I might as well come and audition some new Â£400 CD player in one of their listening rooms. Customer service? Nah, never heard of it mate.

Many thanks to all here for such a speedy response and for making sure I was pointing in the right direction.

Now, about those clock mods....

ADDENDUM
I went through all the service steps you detailed, felix, and it did indeed come up with error code 2 - a focus error. Thanks again.

**clogman** · 21st March 2006, 18:22

Awesome work, men. My KI lives again.

And I should also praise Grandata - I ordered the part yesterday at 11:45, it arrived today at 11:45, exceptionally well packed.

Took about 30 minutes to de-solder all the necessaries and get everything back in place, and now it sounds fabulous.

Thanks again to all involved.

For future reference, here's another step-by-step guide:
http://iangclark.net/projects/CD63/CD63.html

18th March 2006, 16:25	#1
clogman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Resurrecting a dead CD63 KI First, excellent forum. I learned more about hifi and improving sound in a day of browsing than I'd done in years of reading hifi magazines. Second, apologies for being a complete novice when it comes to the inside of a CD player. All I know is, you put a CD in and sound comes out. This I hope to change now I've found this forum. I am pretty handy with the soldering iron and screwdriver, though, having built and rebuilt numerous PCs from the groung up. Third, my CD63KI has died for again. It's been owned since new for more years than I can remember, not really used that much (barely a couple of hours per week). The first time a fault popped up, it started skipping like mad and needed some repair work (don't aks me what was done, I have no idea) but came back just fine. About a month ago, it point blank refused to play anything. A disc goes in, the display says the word "disc", the display keeps saying the word "disc", and nothing else happens. I have tried jumping tracks, other discs, compressed air, but still the same lack of response when a disc goes in. I took the lid off and can see a black plastic frame that retracts and holds the CD, with a sticker on it saying Philips L1210/11. Hmmm. Maybe this is the wrong thing that was added at the repair? This all looks very dust-free and works very smoothly, but a disc goes in and does not rotate at all, it just gets grabbed above and below and the LCD on the front says "disc". I read somewhere about a new transport from Grandata. Again, excusing my complete ignorance, but is the transport the entire assembly including laser and motor? Does my problem sound like it's fixable with a new transport, or is it going to be something more terminal? I really want to get this player up and running again; there's only so much music you can listen to in a car before you long for a room full of sound. And besides, I'd like to start dabbling in the dark arts of clocks and upgrades.

18th March 2006, 16:47	#2
Anex Thermionic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,434	The disc not spinning doesn't have to be a transport problem, if the transport isn't recieving a clock signal it won't do anything. So if you had a replacement transport that could suggest it isn't that as its new or it could be that it was a duff one that prematurely died. Which doesn't help you one bit. Have you done simple stuff like gone over all the connectors to the boards and made sure they're properly pushed into the sockets? __________________ I know genuine Panaphonics when I see it

18th March 2006, 21:40	#4
*Tenson* Admin: Audiosmile Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 5,620	Philips IS Marantz. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not sure whether or not that is the exact right component they used though. __________________ www.audiosmile.co.uk Kensai - Our vision of the ultimate compact speaker Bespoke Supertweeters - Ribbon supertweeters designed for your speakers Modified DEQ / SRC - Affordable high performance DAC and room correction.

19th March 2006, 01:36	#7
*Tenson* Admin: Audiosmile Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 5,620	Its a simple thing to suggest but have you tried leaving it powered off at the wall for a night? It sounds like the logic of the player might have got its pants in a twist I think. Might just need time to reset. __________________ www.audiosmile.co.uk Kensai - Our vision of the ultimate compact speaker Bespoke Supertweeters - Ribbon supertweeters designed for your speakers Modified DEQ / SRC - Affordable high performance DAC and room correction.

19th March 2006, 08:21	#8
andi Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: basingstoke Posts: 111	try cleaning the lens. Cotton bud and lens solution and GENTLY rub the lens. Disc won't spin until it detects a disc __________________ andi http://www.hifiwigwam.com/

18th March 2006, 21:07	#3
clogman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Thanks for reading. I should have been clearer. The repair was done about 4-5 years ago, to solve the 'skipping' problem. The new "disc" problem cropped up about a month or so ago; I suppose something could have died on the original repair. I haven't ordered a new transport yet from Grandata, until someone (hopefully) tells me that it's the most likely fault. And, as an aside, what exactly will a new transport entail? As an update, I've got the entire transport assembly out now. The section that holds the laser lens and CD motor is badged by Philips, VAM1201J. It looks like the repair shop used some compatible Philips items, rather than Marantz items. Granted they might be identical, but other threads mention the CDM12.1 transport. Is this Philips one likely to be an issue here?

19th March 2006, 00:14	#5
felix part-time Horta Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bath Posts: 665	The VAM1201J is the correct replacement for the 12.1 - they are the same thing. Have you tried reading the service mode? Put the thing together, plug in and turn the unit on while holding down the 'Stop' and 'play' buttons. The player will then step through a series of tests and give you a result code identifying fault(s). You can also play discs in this mode as normal, and turning the unit off then on again clears the test mode. Try it, I'll dig out the service manual and look up the results (can't remember offhand!)

19th March 2006, 01:24	#6
clogman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	As ever, you guys are a mine of useful information. Re-assembling the player and running the test gave a message: P 00 Tempted to say it's apt. Needless to say, I checked and re-checked all the internal wires that could have come lose and there was nothing. The transport gives a small 'kick' when I try to jump track, for example, but the machine still refuses to spin the CD and still comes up "disc" on the display. Many thanks again for any more help or info.

19th March 2006, 11:04	#9
clogman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Thanks, but it's been powered off for a while before starting this discussion, and still has the same problem. The lens looks very clean from what I can tell. When the tray is retracted back into the player, the lens assembly rises up and "bounces" up and down. I can obviously only see this when no CD is in the tray. However, putting a piece of paper above the lens doesn't show up any bright spot. I tried this in a darkened room and really can't tell if anything is coming off the laser. So back to my original question - what do I actually get if I buy a new transport? Does that include the laser? If not, and the laser is at fault, where can I find a new one? Keep all suggestions and ideas coming.

19th March 2006, 12:51	#10
leo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 135	Could be the spindle motor, have you tried gently spinning the disc after the drawer has just closed and pressing play? The little disc that rotates the cd underneath may need adjusting, if its too high or too low it can cause problems Check the main board for any crappy solder joints, also those little plugs can be dodgy, with all my cdp's I take out the little metal plugs in the plastic cases and recrimp and solder them up. CPC used to sell lasers, you normally only get the actual laser so you will have to dismantle the drawer etc to fit it, if you do try fitting a new one please be very careful they are delicate especially the ribbon cable, they sometimes also come with a solder short on the little pcb which needs to be removed, this just helps protect from static Edit Have a search through this lot http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...&Ntk=gensearch

19th March 2006, 13:28	#12
felix part-time Horta Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bath Posts: 665	OK. Sounds like the laser is dead. The 'bobbing' is that laser trying to find focus, and until it does the disc motor will not spin-up. While the laser is trying to focus (and not in service mode) you should be able to see a dark red pinpoint on paper as you describe fairly easily (or find some tracing paper, and view from above). No laser = no focus found, and the rest of load process fails. Here's the complete service mode check - try stepping through this first: The replacement is just the laser, disc and tracking motor assembly, which is fitted withn the loader/tray mechanism. From the CD6000 thread, 'Grandata has the CDM12.1 for Â£16+vat here (scroll down): http://www.grandata.co.uk/acatalog/G...UMBER_676.html When I last ordered here they actually sent the VAM1201 which is the updated replacement, and works just fine. It is easy to fit - this page should help walk you through the swap: http://diyparadise.com/cd46/cd46repair.html - it shows the marantz CD46, but the CD63 is identical. BTW the previous skipping problem is classically solved by cleaning and re-lubricating the sled rail - the early 12.1mechs were put together with a grease that hardens with time, leading to the laser sled sticking (well-known irritation!)

19th March 2006, 16:14	#13
zanash Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Notts. Posts: 3,845	That's great info !

19th March 2006, 20:42	#14
clogman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Great info indeed - a very big thankyou. This confirms what I was starting to think - I just wanted someone far more knowledgeable than me to tell me that replacing the transport with the kit from Grandata was actually going to cure the problem, and that it wasn't something else entirely. I'll call tomorrow to place the order and give you a nod when the repair's done. I contacted the only 'decent' hi-fi shop near here on Friday last week, giving them the same details I posted here. Much sucking of teeth later, they said that a repair would typically cost Â£150-Â£200, and that's if parts were still available (which they doubted), so I might as well come and audition some new Â£400 CD player in one of their listening rooms. Customer service? Nah, never heard of it mate. Many thanks to all here for such a speedy response and for making sure I was pointing in the right direction. Now, about those clock mods.... ADDENDUM I went through all the service steps you detailed, felix, and it did indeed come up with error code 2 - a focus error. Thanks again. Last edited by clogman : 19th March 2006 at 23:26.

21st March 2006, 18:22	#15
clogman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Awesome work, men. My KI lives again. And I should also praise Grandata - I ordered the part yesterday at 11:45, it arrived today at 11:45, exceptionally well packed. Took about 30 minutes to de-solder all the necessaries and get everything back in place, and now it sounds fabulous. Thanks again to all involved. For future reference, here's another step-by-step guide: http://iangclark.net/projects/CD63/CD63.html